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  1. #1

    Terrible Play(s)?

    Okay, so these 3 hands are from the same tournament - $12 90 man turbo bounty SNG. I'm posting these hands primarily because while going through the hands I played in this SNG, I felt I made multiple errors in each of these 3 hands, and I'm not sure what they are.

    Be brutal. Please.

    1 -

    9 players
    [SB] zekesito90 (3765)
    [BB] cioara1985 (4315)
    [1] CrappyO (2570)
    [2] trifes (2850)
    [3] Nidurr1 (6000)
    [4] BIGTAC10 (4220)
    [5] pwbwg404 (2750)
    [6] iltis111 (3580)
    [But] BBUCK5 (330)

    Nidurr1 :8c :8h Blinds 40/80

    CrappyO folds
    trifes folds
    Nidurr1 raises to 200
    BIGTAC10 folds
    pwbwg404 folds
    iltis111 calls 200
    BBUCK5 is All in
    zekesito90 folds
    cioara1985 calls 250
    Nidurr1 raises to 950
    iltis111 folds
    cioara1985 calls 620
    ### FLOP ### :Ad :Qd :9c Pot: 2470
    cioara1985 checks
    Nidurr1 bets 850
    cioara1985 folds
    Nidurr1 shows :8c :8h
    BBUCK5 shows :6c :As
    ### TURN ### :Ah Pot: 3320
    ### RIVER ### :5h Pot: 3320
    BBUCK5 wins 1230 from the main pot with Three of a kind, aces
    Nidurr1 wins 2090 from side pot n1 with Two pairs, aces and eights

    I'm not sure if I overplayed 88 here. When I played this hand, I thought the BB was flatting the tiny reshove from button because a) he probably thought that neither I, as initial aggressor, or the cutoff caller would 4 bet, though obviously with any real hand, I'm always 4 betting in this spot to isolate. b) I don't think BB ever has a big pair JJ+, otherwise I think with 2 people behind him, both of whom were getting really good odds to flat with pretty much ATC, he would almost always 4 bet a big pair himself, and c) For the $2 bounty. If CO shoves after my 4 bet, I think I have to put him on big hand he might have been trapping me/tiny stack on btn with, especially since CO would be making it a 5 bet and I don't think my 88 plays well at all against his 5 betting range in that spot. Thankfully, he didn't - he folds. It comes back around to the BB, who flats, and I'm wondering if my 4 bet sizing is off here, and if I should be making it much more. BB had 3 to 1 on a call to my 4 bet, which means while his immediate odds are pretty good, he's invested almost a quarter of his stack in this hand, pre flop. At this time, I had no idea what I was up against, though I remember thinking he might be a bad player to be flatting here. I just wasn't sure, frankly. Anyway, once flop comes down 3 overs, well connected, I think this is a donk bet on the flop by me, since BB is probably checking to preflop 4 bettor almost 100% of the time. While playing this pot, I remember thinking I'm trying to get him to lay down a Queen. He folded to the donk bet, but I have a feeling I was just lucky that either a) He was just a bad player, or b) He had the part of his range that has to laydown to my flop bet. I'm just not sure. I played this pot in a very confused manner, and I'd love to know how you guys might've played this.

    Hand 2 -

    8 players
    [SB] rockplayer333 (13395)
    [BB] zekesito90 (4045)
    [1] bladechef (13660)
    [2] CrappyO (2420)
    [3] trifes (2480)
    [4] Nidurr1 (6000)
    [5] BIGTAC10 (6385)
    [But] iltis111 (2580)

    Nidurr1 :3s :4s Blinds 100/200

    bladechef raises to 400
    CrappyO folds
    trifes folds
    Nidurr1 calls 400
    BIGTAC10 folds
    iltis111 folds
    rockplayer333 folds
    zekesito90 folds
    ### FLOP ### :2d :Qc :5s Pot: 1100
    bladechef bets 200
    Nidurr1 calls 200
    ### TURN ### :5d Pot: 1500
    bladechef bets 200
    Nidurr1 raises to 650
    bladechef calls 450
    ### RIVER ### :8h Pot: 2800
    bladechef checks
    Nidurr1 bets 2225
    bladechef folds

    I called the flop bet with the intention of raising a lot of turns, with the best turn to raise being the 5, since if I actually had the 5, I think I'm going to be playing it almost exactly like this. I think I rep a 5 here quite credibly, with a small turn raise, and a largish river bet. I have NO idea what his range here is, with this donk min betting on flop and turn, though while playing the pot I thought it could be doing this with a wheel gutshot, AK, or a pair between the Q and 5. I would really appreciate thoughts on his perceived range and on my play.


    Hand 3 -

    9 players
    [SB] 05101971 (11417)
    [BB] iltis111 (2865)
    [1] rockplayer333 (20265)
    [2] zekesito90 (3135)
    [3] bladechef (8545)
    [4] peterpotodd (5265)
    [5] forelea (4630)
    [6] Nidurr1 (7700)
    [But] BIGTAC10 (16265)

    Nidurr1 :4h :Ac Blinds 150/300 with Ante 25

    rockplayer333 folds
    zekesito90 folds
    bladechef folds
    peterpotodd folds
    forelea folds
    Nidurr1 raises to 723
    BIGTAC10 calls 723
    05101971 folds
    iltis111 folds
    ### FLOP ### :Qc :Td :5d Pot: 2121
    Nidurr1 checks
    BIGTAC10 bets 900
    Nidurr1 calls 900
    ### TURN ### :7d Pot: 3921
    Nidurr1 bets 1823
    BIGTAC10 calls 1823
    ### RIVER ### :4c Pot: 7567
    Nidurr1 is All in
    BIGTAC10 calls 4229
    Nidurr1 shows :4h :Ac
    BIGTAC10 shows :9d :Ts
    BIGTAC10 wins 16025 from the main pot with A Pair of tens

    Oh, dear. Another donk play. I'm watching this hand play out in horror, and I think if I were playing against myself in this hand, I would put Nidurr1 on the Ace of diamonds. I think I have to bet, bet, bet in this hand to credibly represent ANYTHING, but I'd like to know how ya'll would've played this hand. C-bet-give up?

    Clearly, I need a lot of help, and any/all criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited by The.Reshove; 03-26-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Hand 1- I think I would have played this the same as you but I probably might have iso raised a little more as you pointed out. Not too off though..thing is I don't think through so much while playing the hand. I'm more instinctive at times and tend to think more later..I'm not sure if you play the same way and thought up all that in hind sight or if everything was going through your mind while playing the hand. Thing is you have to factor in that in low buy in SnGs such as this one, the level of play in general is pretty bad. You shouldn't give too much credit to most players based on how they are playing the hand. For eg- Most often, you shuldn't even be thinking that the BB could be a tricky player who's trapping with a big hand by just calling the tiny reshove. Most of the players at that level are just clicking buttons per se. So until and unless I see an advanced play by someone, I just assume they're incapable or even if I do, I usually attribute it to just co-incidence.

    Coming back to the hand, as played, a cbet is mandatory. You are the 4 better in this hand and have built a side pot for yourself. You have a hand that isnt so great anymore and there's a lot of potential scare cards for you. I like ur flop bet as its not too big but it gives u a chance at winning the side pot right there and even getting bb to fold out a few better hands..say 9s,10s and even a queen sometimes. Also, the btn who shoved didn't have too many chips to begin with and he could have shoved a very wide range over your open. This lands you in a very profitable spot as you have a good chance at winning the main pot as well against his range.

    Hand 2- What I've learnt from Intervention..just fold this pre in this spot. U only hav 30bbs to begin with. If ur looking to stack him cause he's raised from utg and put him on a very big hand, it still isnt gonna work out for u often enough for this to be profitable.

    As played, I dont mind u cranking up the pressure right on the flop. U've flopped almost gin with that hand and u have the back door fd as well. A min lead is usually imo either a sign of real weakness or real strength. From what I saw here, it felt like his hand wasnt that strong. Probably a small pp or ace high. Dont mind the way you played it either. Ur repping a credible line as well and that's a good river to bet strongly on

    Hand 3- Yea I wuld hav c-bet given up. Still leaves u with enough chips to get a stack going. No need to make too many advanced, creative plays at these levels. Solid play works for the most part..trust me

  3. #3
    AS - Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your time, and I think you made some pretty important points here. Merci beaucoup!

  4. #4
    Hand 1, You really don't wanna raise to small here to isolate. As played he will of course call with most of his range given proper odds. Raise more next time to isolate.

    Hand 2, I would fold pre-flop. As played I would make it 850 on the flop since you'r in position and his sizing is just bad. He will check the turn close to 100% so if you miss turn you could check back to see a free river.

    Hand 3, this is spew. When you check that flop i can't see how you could represent anything by donk-bet the turn when flush hits.

  5. #5
    Hand 1: Overplayed the pocket 8's for sure and you are lucky they held up. As for the other player if I am calling that preflop bet and have the lead I am certainly going to c-bet the flop regardless to apply pressure; checking is just too weak after the preflop action. If I do check it would be with a monster.
    Hand 2: FOLD PREFLOP - You are calling a raise with 34 with 4 others to act behind .. what if they re-raised what was you plan .. FOLD ?
    Hand 3: FOLD PREFLOP - it's A 4 regardless of whether it is suited .. I would only make up the SB or check the BB with this hand. You would have to fold to any squeeze play from the button, SB or BB ... raising from the CO can easily be interpretted as an attempt to steal the blinds.
    Last edited by MumbaiMagic; 03-28-2011 at 02:35 PM.
    "When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing. Thus, the momentum of one skilled in war is overwhelming, and his attack precisely regulated".

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