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  1. #11

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    This is relevant to $100NL and $200NL on FT and Stars - Since I open light very frequently from the button, I obviously get 3-bet by the blinds a lot. I have a fair idea of the equity of most hands I'm opening on the button with, but I can't seem to play 7s and 8s right. I almost never 4-bet with these two hands from the button, since I'd like to see a flop instead of getting 5-bet out of the pot preflop; calling the 3-bet and then the villain's mandatory c-bet on the flop on most 10 or Jack high rainbow boards is, so far, not working out to be +EV. Also, these are the two hands where I don't seem to know where I'm at, post flop and turn. Help, please?

    -Rish

  2. #12

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    was holding a 6 and 7 hearts ...the flop opened H8 S2 C9 ...i raised the normal bet amount after everyone checked...call by 5 ppl on the table ...one of them raised twice the bet...everyone called...on the turn H 9 ...this 2nd person raised the same amount raised in the 1st round..everyone called...the river was H 10 ....the perfect hand ....i raised 3 times the bet amount....2nd person raised...3rd person fold...4th person re-raised......the 5th one went all in ....and i thought it was my lucky day...so i had called i was all in ...the others also called and went all in ....


    1st person had 22 - 2's full of 9
    2nd person had 98 - 9's full of eight
    4th person had ace flush
    5th person had a H J and H Q

    the flop .. H8 S2 C9 H9 H10

    suggestions are welcome ...can this hand bet any better ....WTF did i do wrong...no wild raises....had a straight flush 6 to 10....lost to a higher straight flush 8 to queen....my luck seriously sucks ..lol

  3. #13

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    Rish -
    The NL stakes at Stars/FT mentioned by you usually allows max buy-ins of 100 BB. I don't think calling a pre-flop 3-bet heads-up with small pocket pair can be +EV in the long run for these limits. Effective stack sizes will not justify making a call considering the small number of time you can win enough even after hitting your set. Multi-way pots and deeper stacks is a different proposition of course. But even in such cases one has to keep open the option of folding to big re-raises pre flop.

    Varnit -
    Dude, either you just woke up from a poker nightmare OR played this hand against opponents who fixed the deal beforehand. Coz this kind of crazy hands only happen in Bond movies!

    Cheers!
    Bhalla
    Cheers!<br /><br />Bhalla<br /><br />{My Kings are a coin flip against your Aces}

  4. #14

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by shashank.s
    Hey,
    I play a cash game with a couple of guys from college regularly, none of them are exceptionally great, but all of them love to gamble. The mood in the table is generally really loose, so i play a very tight game, trying to protect my chips. The problem is these guys can call,raise or re raise with any two cards. And more often than not you will find yourself in the receiving end of a bad beat. I will give an example;
    I was in late position with AK off, so i raised to 3times BB, i got three callers. The flop came 7 K J rainbow, I raised and got one caller. The turn was a 3,changed nothing once again i bet and he called. The river was a 4, with no flush or straight possibilities on the board, i raised to about 3/4th of the pot and suddenly he re raised me. I went over the hand again and saw no harm (I even thought he was trying to push me out of the pot with a straight draw or medium pair) and made the call only to be shown a rivered tripe. Now i cant understand why he was calling me all the way...............
    IS THEIR A BETTER WAY I COULD HAVE PLAYED THE HAND. OPEN TO ADVICE


    And after this hand i went into tilt and lost my entire stack, it was really frustrating.....
    What should i do?????? Do you think i would stop playing in this table, as i feel it is negatively affecting my game???????

    If you know the table gamble (guessing the stakes don't affect them) then you will have to take the rough with the smooth. However you have to consistently bet the same. You cannot afford to lower your stakes when you win since you recover less than you lose. Best to play a) where the stakes mean something b) you all have similar bankrolls and I mean the ability to rebuy chips.

    I play in a similar cash game crowd as you describe .... I had AA cracked on the river when after he called my allin when I literally told him any pair from KK down is beat .. he still callled with 10 9 on a 10 high board .. no flush or str8 draw and rivered a 9 :'( :'( . Another hand I had KQ on an Q high board and someone rivered a J to go with his JJ .. another pot lost .. at all times I knew I was ahead before the river ... I lost 5 buyins .. but other nights your hands will hold up ...

    Know your customer and act accordingly ... highs and lows will occur at volatile tables ...


    P.S If we play a tournament freeze-out, I crush them as they still play with a cash game mentality ...

    if it affects your game and you are on tilt .. walk away, take 10 minutes out and come back .. focus your game .. or leave ..
    &quot;When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing. Thus, the momentum of one skilled in war is overwhelming, and his attack precisely regulated&quot;.

  5. #15

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhalla
    Rish -
    The NL stakes at Stars/FT mentioned by you usually allows max buy-ins of 100 BB. I don't think calling a pre-flop 3-bet heads-up with small pocket pair can be +EV in the long run for these limits. Effective stack sizes will not justify making a call considering the small number of time you can win enough even after hitting your set. Multi-way pots and deeper stacks is a different proposition of course. But even in such cases one has to keep open the option of folding to big re-raises pre flop.

    Cheers!
    Bhalla

    Rohit,

    Given the fact that these are 6-max tables where 3-betting light is rampant, I personally think hands like 77/88 are too good to lay down PF. Depending on the opponent's playing style, I don't think I'm folding these hands here more than 20% of the time. I'm just wondering how to go about playing them post flop, in and out of position - especially since hitting a set is only a 12.5% possibility, the rest 87.5% of the time my hand is going to stay unimproved. I realize that the texture and wetness/dryness of the board obviously plays a big part here, but I just can't seem to play them right.

    -Rish

  6. #16

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Varnit
    was holding a 6 and 7 hearts ...the flop opened H8 S2 C9 ...i raised the normal bet amount after everyone checked...call by 5 ppl on the table ...one of them raised twice the bet...everyone called...on the turn H 9 ...this 2nd person raised the same amount raised in the 1st round..everyone called...the river was H 10 ....the perfect hand ....i raised 3 times the bet amount....2nd person raised...3rd person fold...4th person re-raised......the 5th one went all in ....and i thought it was my lucky day...so i had called i was all in ...the others also called and went all in ....


    1st person had 22 - 2's full of 9
    2nd person had 98 - 9's full of eight
    4th person had ace flush
    5th person had a H J and H Q

    the flop .. H8 S2 C9 H9 H10

    suggestions are welcome ...can this hand bet any better ....WTF did i do wrong...no wild raises....had a straight flush 6 to 10....lost to a higher straight flush 8 to queen....my luck seriously sucks ..lol

    You fail to state what the preflop action was .. guessing everybody limp called ... with 5 to a flop just asking for trouble ... You always raise to get rid of players (regardless of your holding) but doubt the Qh Jh is folding anyway.

    If you get cold decked .. you get cold decked. (assume you trust these guys and saw the pack get shuffled : :)
    &quot;When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing. Thus, the momentum of one skilled in war is overwhelming, and his attack precisely regulated&quot;.

  7. #17

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by akshaylakhina
    Hi Intervention,

    I had AQo in my hand and raised, 2 more people called

    Flop was H8 D4 CJ (Rainbow)

    All three checked

    Turn SQ

    I raised

    1 person folded
    other person to my surprise went all-in

    Flop was rainbow and Turn was also different, so no chance of flush or full house.

    I had Q pair with high kicker and River yet to come

    I called

    River was SA, I got double pair

    However that person was holding DKDT and got his straight

    I am wondering how a person go all-in to look for straight on Turn

    Wondering what would I have done?
    He simply re-raised you with a semi-bluff (having caught more outs on the turn) with the notion that you may well fold having checked the flop and showed weakness.

    You were the preflop aggressor, yet you checked the flop, you might as well have said aloud I do not have a high pair and I have missed that flop completely .. whereas a 3/4 pot bet showing strength may well have taken it down on the flop there and then.

    There is the chance that they may read it as a c-bet and call, but you cannot simply check and give them a free card and loads of information regarding the strength of your hand.

    Your actions influence the decisions and resulting actions of the other players. You pressured them preflop and then simply relinquished control and released that pressure on the flop.




    &quot;When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing. Thus, the momentum of one skilled in war is overwhelming, and his attack precisely regulated&quot;.

  8. #18

    Re: Post Hands here for feedback

    @rish and rohit..

    i guess in these 6 max hyper aggressive cash games its definitely negative ev to fold these hands evrytime because of the button-blind dynamics. You'll be at worst 50-50 or ahead most of the times ..

    people 3 bet u more not only because you love to open but because you open with a wide range and almost never 4 bet with ur mediocre or weak holdings .. u only 4 bet whn u have it ..
    see basically 4 betting in position with 77-99 is like calling his c-bet preflop and taking the lead in case he calls.

    with hands like 77-99 where its really tough to play postflop without the lead, u should either fold preflop or 4 bet.

    And with these 4 bets with mediocre hands you can easily balance them by 4 betting ur monster hands AA,KK,QQ and get more value out of them and leave ur opponents in more confusion rather than u being in those tough guessing spots ..

    Laul ..

  9. #19
    Laul, I think if I start getting 77++ in my four betting range, two things will happen very quickly -

    1. I'll start getting into yucky 5-bet jam type situations a lot, where I will NEVER be ahead - I'll either be crushed, or tossing. And I'll have to do the math but I don't think I'm going to show a profit in that spot with just the dead 3-bet I pick up versus the number of times I have to end up calling his 5-bet jams for odds, and be crushed.

    2. I think $1/$2 players adjust quite rapidly, and my opponents will adjust their 5 bet jamming range to my 4-betting light-ish range.

    What dyu guys think?

    -Rish

  10. #20
    I almost never 4-bet with these two hands from the button, since I'd like to see a flop instead of getting 5-bet out of the pot preflop
    If u'd like to see a flop and are wary of getting pushed out of the pot with a probable weaker holding, I'd suggest limping in.

    Laul, I think if I start getting 77++ in my four betting range, two things will happen very quickly -

    1. I'll start getting into yucky 5-bet jam type situations a lot, where I will NEVER be ahead - I'll either be crushed, or tossing. And I'll have to do the math but I don't think I'm going to show a profit in that spot with just the dead 3-bet I pick up versus the number of times I have to end up calling his 5-bet jams for odds, and be crushed.
    I dont think this is true. U said that u dont 4 bet ur mid strength hands...then why do u think u feel u'll get 5 bet a lot. If the players are as smart as u make them out to be, u wuldnt get 5 bet too much unless they hav a monster themselves in which case u can safely bow out or one of these hands go to showdown and they realise that u had 4 bet a mid pp pre flop.

    2. I think $1/$2 players adjust quite rapidly, and my opponents will adjust their 5 bet jamming range to my 4-betting light-ish range.
    Personally, I dont think the $1/$2 players are that good overall. I dont think most of them would adjust in such a spot. Yea there would be some who would give you trouble but not all of them.

    So in conclusion, I'd say just mix them into ur limping range if u dont like getting 3 bet light and 5 bet jammed when ur holding these hands or take himanshu's advice and mix it into ur 4 betting range.

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